WWIIOL French rifle quandry

The problem is that there are two rifles IRL in the game fused into one:  we have the 3D model of the Lebel, and the functionality of either the Berthier M.34 or MAS.36.  A brief discussion of the three primary French rifles in use in 1940 and comments below.  Much of this is summarized from pages I had bookmarked on the old beta forums.

The Lebel (adopted in the 1890's, composing the core of French infantry rifles at the beginning of WW1) is based on an older Austrian rifle design.  It used the older 8mm cartridge.

The Berthier 07 modified in 1915 has been adopted in 1916 to replace progressively the Lebel that had shown its limitations. By the end of WW1, the Berthier 07/15 was the most numerous rifle in the French army, but many Lebels were still around.

By 1920, the Army wanted to abandon the 8 mm (used by the Lebel, Berthier 07/15, etc...) caliber for the new 7.5 mm caliber.  However, France had huge stocks of WW1 rifles and could not switch immediately to 7.5 mm. The two calibers co-existed for some time. The officials asked a modernization of 250,000 Berthier 07/15 to be able to use the 7.5 mm bullet. This modernization was called Fusil Modèle 1934 (also named Berthier 1907/15 M34).

In the 1930s the Army was not yet satisfied with it's rifle armament and desided to design a new bolt-action rifle, building on experience with the new 7.5mm caliber.  The result was the MAS.36.  By 1940, some 250,000 were issued.  These were given to the best units - those troops in the DLMs (armored cavalry divisions) and DIMs (motorized infantry divisions) were first to receive the new rifle.  The design was successful, and was used as the basis for the MAS.40 and MAS.44 (and later MAS.49 and MAS.49/56) semiautomatic assault rifles.

By 1940 the French army had a total of 2,600,000 rifles of various models on hand.  The most common model was the Berthier 1907/15, followed by the Lebel, and the M.34 and MAS.36.  The 7.5mm weapons were issued mostly to front-line troops and A divisions.  B and C divisions generally received progressively worse weapons.  The Lebel was at the bottom of this heirarchy.

The rifle 3D model in-game is a Lebel rifle. 

The Lebel:

The Lebel rifle used an 8-round 8mm tube magazine which awkwardly fed not unlike a shotgun or lever-action rifle.  It was not modernized to 7.5mm.  It was able to fire the VB rifle grenade, which served as the 'light mortar' element in French infantry formations.


The M34 and the original Berthier were slightly different in aspect (shorther barrel length , new "recesses" for the fingers on the rifle on the M34).

The M34:

The Berthier 1907/15:

The Berthier M.34 used a 5-round internal box, stripper-fed magazine in 7.5mm.  The M.1907/15 used a 3-round internal box magazine in 8mm.  Some rifles were upgraded in 1916 to a 5-round internal magazine.  The most common version was the 8mm Berthier M1907/15.  The Berthier was considered too delicate to fire the VB rifle grenade.

The MAS.36 bolt-action rifle:

MAS.36

The MAS.36 used a 5-round box magazine fed by a stripper clip.  It used 7.5mm ammuntion, and was able to fire the VB rifle grenade.

So, from the above and knowing what is modelled in-game, we see the 3D visual model does not match the functional model:

-the rifle modelled in the game has the 3D visual of the Lebel, but has a 5-round magazine like the Berthier M.34 or MAS.36 (Lebel had 8 rounds)
-the visual reload sequence uses a stripper clip like the M.34 or MAS.36, not the tube magazine of the Lebel.
-the caliber modelled is the 7.5mm, like the M.34 or the MAS.36.  The Lebel rifle fired 8mm.

To resolve these contraditions, there are three possibilities:

1) Change the functional model to match the 3D model of the Lebel.  This would entail changing the ammunition to 8mm, the magazine capacity to 8 rounds, and the reload visualization to load the tube-feeder.

2) Change the 3D model to that of the Berthier M.34.  All the existing functionality would be correct (7.5mm, 5 round internal box, stripper clip reload sequence).

3) Change the 3D model to that of the MAS.36.  All the existing functionality would be correct (7.5mm, 5 round internal box, stripper clip reload sequence).

Our (Luminary/GdG/Pachy) recommendation:
Model the 3D visual for one of the two 7.5mm rifles and change nothing for the functional model.  It *seems* to be the easier path to resolution of the contradictions in modelling (visual versus functional).  As to the question of which rifle to model the 3D visual for, we feel that there are several reasons to choose the MAS.36 over the Berthier:

1) The MAS.36 can fire rifle grenades.  If CRS chooses to model rifle grenades, the Berthier would be unable to fire them.
2) It was the rilfe in use in the best French units in 1940.
3) It is the basis of the MAS.40 semiautomatic rifle, which would be a candidate for a later tier infantry rifle to be modelled for the French:

MAS.40
I personally own a MAS.36 and a MAS.44 (1944 model almost identical to the MAS.40 which was put back into production soon after the liberation).  For visual references, I have taken several photos of my MAS.36 (and could do the same for the MAS.44).  My MAS.36 photos:

http://www.pangea-systems.com/wwiiws/weapons/infanterie/mas36/

--Luminary
jaherring@usa.net